My first two installments are here and here. Let’s continue.
- When did it start making good business sense for the U.S. to hold preferred stock positions in small local banks, as the new small business stimulus allows?
- When did it become fiscally responsible to have to borrow just to pay interest on the National Debt?
- When did it become fiscally responsible governing to owe so much money to a country like China?
- When did we become a nation in which WE THE PEOPLE told the government what we wanted, and then were ignored by those whom we voted into office?
When did it make business sense not let the economy collapse? Sometimes it is mind-boggling that conservatives ask these questions. Let’s go back. The U.S. economy was in freefall. Because of complex derivatives, credit default swaps, CDOs and other exotic financial tools, our banks are more interconnected than ever. It turns out that almost 1/4 of the banks in the United States own stock in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. You don’t have to be a financial genius to figure out that if some of these banks have borrowed against these stock holdings, they are in trouble. The question is, what would be the intelligent way to stabilize small banks? Conservative ideology would tell you to let the market sort it out. Translation: let millions more Americans lose their jobs, let the credit markets seize up and convince Americans this is all for their own good. Or, intervene, stabilize the markets, stabilize the small banks and mitigate the suffering and loss for the American people. One way can keep Americans working and the other invites a second Great Depression.
When did it become fiscally responsible to have to borrow just to pay interest on the national debt? Where’ve you been? Republicans haven’t been fiscally responsible since before Nixon. The interest on our national debt in 1988, the last year of the “Great Communicator” was $214 billion. Where was your outrage then? When George H. W. Bush and then George W. Bush, the sequel, never presented a balanced budget to Congress, where was your outrage? I guess it became okay to let China buy our debt when it became okay to go to war over oil. A war that we never budgeted for, never decided to sell war bonds to pay for. Where was your outrage… then? I have a huge problem with this selective financial argument. Look, if you want to be financially responsible then let’s have an honest discussion on how D’s and R’s aren’t getting it done. If we are going stand around and fear-monger, then I don’t have time for that. Sorry.
When the majority of Americans decided they did not want to go to war in Iraq, where was your frustration, outrage and condescension? Gallup polls just before the invasion show the majority of Americans were not in favor of the war. How was that different? Was that just a strong president being decisive?
So, instead of asking thoughtful questions we have a list of partisan pet peeves. That’s fine, but it does nothing to further our national debate. How do we get out of this massive debt hole? I’m happy to have the discussion. I’m happy to have the discussion just as long as everything is on the table, but for the most part, conservatives don’t want everything on the table. The defense budget is off-limits. When did it become fiscally responsible to spend tens of billions on missile defense when test after test has shown that it doesn’t work? We don’t have the available technology right now. Why don’t we scale back, go back to the drawing board, something? Instead, we keep throwing good money after bad. I’m happy to have the discussion about cutting Medicare and Medicaid benefits as long as conservatives are happy to have the discussion about raising taxes. If the goal is to decrease deficits, then we need to increase revenues and decrease expenses. Put everything on the table. Now let’s have the discussion.
Funny how you can pretend to 'analyze' the financial situation and never even mention subprime mortgages (and how they got there) which were at the heart of the crisis.
Such a pattern of denial is really sad, but probably qualifies you to run for office in your party.
Joe I think we've all seen your rant that all the economic problems are due to mortgages and all of that was Bill Clinton's fault. No need to repeat it.
I want to know how the conservatives are planning on finding and creating jobs without spending money? Wouldn't they be government jobs which they then speak against? They speak out both ears because they refuse to answer legitimate questions instead. Just speak we need to create jobs. Just jobs won't do it. Just like you say why are we investing in something that doesn't work instead of investing in something that does? Just to hang onto jobs? I expect the corporations are hanging onto all that money so they can pay their CEO's huge bonuses for doing such a good job. Which okay maybe that is doing a good job. But in the meantime why are we blaming the government for lack of jobs. When the private sector has chosen to keep it in their hands.
Atlas Mining mined Uranium in Utah and dumped the tailings next to the Colorado River. They went bankrupt and gee they couldn't pay for the cleanup. So it became a Superfund project. With the federal and state government picking up the tab to move the tailings. WHY? Well lets see the minings companies swear they will clean up their mess when they are done. But golly lets just file for bankruptcy after we have made our money and they will have to pay for it…. Less Regulation… They don't think it is fair that they should be burdoned with extra upfront costs.
Actually there is a great need to repeat it anytime we say we're going to analyze why this situation occurred and how to prevent a repeat in the future.
But just stay in denial with your liberal buddies and we'll vote you out in November.
“…we'll vote you out in November”. And (if true) we will vote you out again in a future November. The middle decides the elections. Now they are set to vote out of fear. The GOP are very good at fear mongering. Only their solutions are the same old thing. Your GOP will screw up again in a big way and the middle will vote blue again. It's not rocket science. It's history repeating itself.
Mind you there are extremes. One only needs to look at AZ for examples of the blind leading the blind. The state is nearly bankrupt yet they are poised to re-elect a Republican legislature, governor and possibly the worst US Senator in history, John McCain. I find the state depressing. There may be examples of a poorly run blue state too.
Bottom line, at the Federal level, it will move back and forth as it always has. So enjoy your 15 minutes of glory. It won't be the last laugh when the GOP fails once again.
Jeff wrote:
“One only needs to look at AZ for examples of the blind leading the blind. The state is nearly bankrupt yet they are poised to re-elect a Republican legislature, governor and possibly the worst US Senator in history, John McCain.”
Thanks for the great example of muddy thinking and smoke and mirrors.
The state is nearly bankrupt because of the crushing burden of providing services for illegal aliens. That is a federal problem and not really the result of an inept state legislature or governor.
And what does McCain have to do with the state's finances? He is a US Senator, not a state senator. Do you understand the difference?
btw I am an independent. My criticism of Democrats in this venue is due to the facts that most of the inhabitants of this blog are Democrats. But I've got plenty of criticism for Republicans too, believe me.
I would love to see some decent Democratic candidates that I could vote for. I have voted for Democrats previously and would do so again if they were superior to the Republican choice that was offered.
I'm really sick of choosing between mediocre and bad. But that's largely the choice between Republicans and Dems these days.
I'll continue to pull the lever for mediocre until something better shows up.
I can't name a Republican choice for President in 2012 that excites me, but I can name several Democrat choices that scare me to death.
Margaret wrote:
“I want to know how the conservatives are planning on finding and creating jobs without spending money?”
Who says hiring people doesnt cost money?
You are making things up again, Margaret.
It's a matter of who spends it and for what.
If x number of dollars are available for businesses to hire, then it can employ a certain number of people.
But if you take the same x number of dollars out of the private sector as taxes, send it to Washington, pay the bureaucracy, and then attempt to insert it back into the economy to hire people you'll find that there's not as much money as when you started. So you end up hiring fewer people and padding the salaries of bureaucrats.
It's math, Margaret. Or as my dad used to say 'Money doesnt grow on trees'.
If you want to produce jobs, let people spend their own money. They will buy what they want, and that creates demand for what they are buying. Businesses hire people to provide the product or service to meet the demand.
oh and dont forget to do American workers a favor and buy American.
I do understand the difference between senators. There are a lot of reasons why I think McCain is a terrible senator. One reason is his staunch opposition to earmarks. Now I'm not saying earmarks are great, but they are a way to get something done at a local level that otherwise lacks funding. McCain negatively impacts state finances because he doesn't represent AZ. He represents only his selfish interests for power and does nothing for the state at any level.
Did you get that or should I type slower?
As for AZ being so overburdened by illegals, that is GOP propoganda that you have fallen for. While costs for illegals and others who need medical care and education are not insignificant, this state grew on development at the expense of environment and sound financial management. When development stopped, they had no plan. They refused to consider real estate or income tax increases (though AZ has both at very low levels), and instead went for a regressive sales tax increase. They have slashed education even though our education system already is one of the worst in the country. This state is about me first, you whenever. Do you know that a major source of funding for this year was they sold state buildings and now lease them back? Short term finance gain with no long term plan. That is the GOP at its best.
I'll close with what our Libertarian governor candidate said about the GOP governor. He said there HAVE been beheadings in the desert, and she was sitting next to him at the debate.
I just heard the lady running against Barbara Boxer state on NPR that the corporations want to be paid to bring their workers back to the US. Plus to cut down on the environmental controls and give them tax breaks to relocate. So the working person pays to keep his job. Let alone all the money they are getting from the tax breaks for sending their workers overseas.
I know where they can get the money and that is to quit subsidizing the Tobacco and oil and gas companies, corn growers and million aire farmers.
STOP THE SPENDING is the rightwing screech….
But now if the republicans say they will create jobs, cut taxes, not increase the deficit. Then I do see more and more houses burning with privatization of services…
Joe –
As you know, I have a whole series on the financial crisis. I have talked about subprime mortgages. I have research your theories. What is sad is that even after I have looked into your theories and I have found them to be without merit. You have no evidence to back up your theory yet you keep pushing it and pushing it.
Your twin series that the subprime mortgage crisis was caused by Bill Clinton which completely ignores the fact that Phil Gramm pushed for repeal of the Glass – Steagall act. Then, you add and, just for a little spice, that Chuck Schumer brought down the market in order for the Democrats to win the election. You offer no evidence to support this except for the fact that Chuck Schumer said something. So, I looked into your theory that proves that Indy Macwas unstable and in deep trouble prior to Chuck Schumer ever opening his mouth. Yet you've ignored this information.
Thanks for your comments.
you understand that it doesn't matter who gets elected in November. You understand that don't you? You understand we live in a democracy where the power really rests with the president. The president has the ability to veto the will of the majority. Therefore, without a super majority, you're not to be able to get any significant legislation passed. You understand that don't you?
Dr Thompson wrote:
“Yet you've ignored this information.”
Dont lie.
Everybody knows that IndyMac was being reviewed and was in trouble. That's why Shumer was given the confidential information to begin with. That's the whole point.
No one, especially me, has tried to make the case that IndyMac wasnt in bad shape.
What Shumer did was an effort to push it over the cliff that it was too near to. And he succeeded.
Would you stand on the air hose of a patient in ICU, Doctor?
Dr Thompson wrote:
“I have research your theories.”
It's not a 'theory' that subprime mortgages were at the heart of the financial crisis.
It's a fact
Margaret wrote:
“Then I do see more and more houses burning with privatization of services”
You are making yourself look silly by refusing to acknowledge why the residents of the county had no fire department.
It wasnt the city fire department's fault that there was no county department.
You are funny Joe White. You must have a neighbor who bought and lost a house that he couldn't afford and dispise him. Or you are jealous that you can't refinance and are under water in your own mortgage and hate that fact that YOU bought a house that was priced way to high. Or the fact that you have horrible credit that even you were turned down for a no interest mortgage.
wow Margaret, three swings and three misses. You're out.
no, I despise no one, least of all someone who is losing a house (I have several friends in this situation)
no, I haven't tried to refi, I rent.
no, I'm quite content with the rental situation I have — low rate, friendly landlord who is responsible for upkeep instead of me. In short, I've never even had to apply for a mortgage.
Subprime mortgages were at the heart of the financial meltdown, as was widely acknowledged even on the political left at the time, until it became apparent how many lefties were involved. http://www.slate.com/id/2192801/