TCB - As usual (tongue in cheek), you are wrong. I have been thinking about your thoughts and words. I have been researching a thoughtful response. I appreciate your thoughts and your argument. I'll have more later.

I’m sorry that you have chosen not to respond and merely repeated your previous assertions without developing your argument any further. For the sake of clarity I will sum up my position: Any mental suffering does not equate to SEVERE suffering. I think that a line has to drawn but you seem not to choose to draw any line. Severe physical suffering is usually obvious. Severe mental suffering is much harder to define but if we exclude intrinsic causes such as depression, then the experience must involve a factor of trauma and time. The greater the trauma or hardship, the briefer the time (such as watching your wife raped and killed). The less intense the trauma and hardship, the longer the time (solitary confinement for weeks, months or years). I doubt that panties on the head for 5 , 10 or even a 100 minutes would meet either criteria. Anyway, I’m just trying to escape simple and politicized conceptions about a complex issue.

TCB - I'm sorry now you have taken your argument too far. It is now ridiculous, in my opinion. But I can't say that I didn't see that one coming. You are consistent. Torture is clearly specific to the individual as you mentioned above. Torture also gets to intention.

ECT: Many of the things that Republicans have argued now don’t seem to apply. Placing one in jail can be mental suffering but it is not intended to obtain information or a confession. What do you think plea bargaining is? People are often threatened with jail to get information on other conspirators. I think imprisonment is suffering, especially when unjust but it’s not torture. The key qualifier is severe suffering, not any suffering. I think the standard is usually what the mythical reasonable man would call severe. ECT: So, this photo… a prisoner who was stripped naked and forced to wear women’s underwear on this head. Is this torture? Degrading, yes. But not torture. Being chained, naked and wearing women’s under is even arousing for some. Our whole opinion at the correctness of this particular event would be influenced by who’s under the underwear. If the underwear were removed and we saw the face of Hitler, no one would call it torture or even degrading. On the other hand, if the face under the underwear revealed Tony Blair, I think most would call it degrading and some even torture.

Yes, that is torture.